Robbie P. 6:37 PM
Hello everyone, and welcome to our round table discussion: The New 52 - six months later
Kee
HELLOOOOOOOOOO
Alyx L.
HI!
Kenneth G.
Evening, all.
Robbie P.
For any new or unfamiliar readers, let's introduce ourselves. I'm Robbie, writer of "Whatever I Read."
Alyx L,
Alyx from "The Geeky Cat"
Kenneth G.
I'm Kenneth Godberson a.k.a. the Disgruntled Scholar.
Kee
I'm Kee aka Havocluver
Robbie P.
And we'll be discussing how DC's new 52 comics have been doing. It's been half a year. Some have survived, some couldn't make the cut, but this is our thoughts on them.
Alyx L.
w00p!
Kenneth G.
What has been good, and what has not been so good. And above all else, was this reboot worth the effort.
Robbie P.
We've got several topics to discuss, so let's start with the first one: our own histories with comics. Who'd like to begin?
Alyx L.
I suppose I can start?
Kenneth G.
Go for it
Alyx L.
Alrighty, whelp, I was introduced to comics in 2010 by an ex friend of mine. She was more into DC then she was Marvel so all she had me read was Birds of Prey and Batman.
I knew about Marvel comics but never delved into them fully until I met my friend Courtney. As much as I can say I know a lot about characters, I don't… therefore the new 52 has been really helpful for me!
Kenneth G.
I do have to say, in regards to certain characters, the New 52 has been very helpful in introducing characters to new readers.
Robbie P.
Personally, I suppose my gateway was the 90's animated cartoons. X-Men, Batman, Spider-Man, those got me into the super heroes, but it wasn't until a few years ago that I really started buying comics and following the stories, but I managed to get caught up on the important things pretty quickly.
I follow both Marvel and DC titles, so I don't take one side over the other; one has Deadpool, the other has Booster Gold, how can I chose between them?
Alyx L.
I got into the animated stuff last year but pretty much I'm all caught up with what I missed from the 90s ha
Kee
I mainly grew up with the movies of DC as well as shows, and then I delved into the world of comics a couple of years ago, but mainly with a lot of DC comics, and then I believe in 2010 I picked up The Walking Dead, and then last year I REALLY got into DC comics, cause that's what I familiar with, so I never delved into the marvel world only really kind of started last year when I picked up Marvel, but when I learned about the New 52 I was really excited.
Kenneth G.
I first read comics back when the third generation (Tim Drake, Bart Allen, Conner Kent) were rising in popularity. I did fall out of it (thank you, anime) after awhile. However, due to a my dear friend Robbie here introducing me to series such as "Blue Beetle" and "52", I started getting back, but only in trades. As you can tell, I'm mostly a DC fan.
Alyx L.
Nothing wrong with that!
Kenneth G.
The New 52 allowed me to follow stories as they're being released instead of waiting for trades.
Robbie P.
So it looks like none of us can really boast being "long time comic fans," but still long enough to have a good understanding and feel for the books and characters.
Alyx L.
Pretty much, haha
Kee
Yup
Robbie P.
Now that everyone knows what sort of background we have, let's move on to the new 52 itself: What expectations did we all have upon its announcement?
Kenneth G.
Well, I thought of this really as a publicity stunt, really to advertise their same-day digital service.
Just tell good stories, let the writers control their stories. That's how you get people.
But it was a jumping on point for me, so who am I to complain?
Alyx L.
I was really pumped. I knew I would have a chance to get to learn more about the characters from the beginning... or "beginning," without having to research which story arcs were the best to read to get to learn about them. But since I knew A LOT about DC prior to the 52 I can say the first thing that turned me off was the costume changes..but that aside I was pretty happy/excited.
Kee
I thought this was a good tactic for attracting a new a generation of comic book readers
Robbie P.
I was a mix of nervous and skeptical; how big was the reboot going to be? What would change and what would remain the same? I didn't want all the continuity I had enjoyed up until then to just be thrown out the window, after all.
The news we got about it kept being both good and bad, with the occasional "Wut?"
We got Booster Gold leading the JLI and a new run for Blue Beetle? Excellent.
Clark and Lois no longer being together? Bad.
Batgirl has her legs back and Harley is on the Suicide Squad? Wut?
Kee
I really thought that the costumes changes were good and bad, and also I was really quite mad about the Batgirl reboot/
Robbie P.
Sorry, I should say Barbara Gordon, since there are multiple Batgirls I could be referring to.
Kenneth G.
Yeah, that is something we have to discuss.
Kee
I felt like it was a cop out.
Robbie P.
It read that way as well. "A miracle happened?" We need more than that
Plus regaining coordination, the strength in her legs, etc, it would take more than a miracle to get back into the peak physical condition being Batgirl requires
Kenneth G.
My problem with it is that, frankly, Barbara did more good as Oracle then she ever did as Batgirl.
Kee
I second that completely!
Alyx L.
I was introduced to her as Oracle, therefore I wanted her to stay Oracle.
Robbie P.
Not to mention how empowering her being Oracle was to the handicapped community. She can be a hero without her legs, without needing to fight.
Kenneth G.
As Oracle, she was an invaluable information broker. As Batgirl, she's just another grunt.
Kee
I felt like the birds of prey alone shouldn't have been tampered with, but that's just me
Robbie P.
And there was a perfectly good Batgirl she pushed to the side to take the cowl back at that
Kenneth G.
Not to mention it has put Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain, someone who was just coming back from massive character derailment, on the back burner.
Robbie P.
This is bringing us to the next point quite nicely: how did it pan out? We had our expectations, how were they met?
Kenneth G.
Some were met, some not so met. For example, not only were my expectations met on Batman by Scott Snyder, but they far exceeded my expectations.
Kee
I felt like they could've done better with some series, and some others were fantastic. it was really off balanced.
Alyx L.
I honestly didn't have much going into it, because I only knew about Batman, the Robins, and Green Lantern. So I didn't know honestly what to expect going into it because not only did I know nothing about majority of the characters but I am (and still am not) familiar with writers and artists.
Kenneth G.
Then there were books like the aforementioned Batgirl, as well as Justice League Dark that felt kind of clunky.
Robbie P.
Some books met my expectations (Justice League International) some exceeded them (Aquaman), and others fell flat (Static Shock). I felt that Justice League, the main title, was pretty good, just with too much setup and too little payoff.
Of course, we have some incredible titles, such as Swamp Thing, and while I didn't like Animal Man personally, I hear it's been quite good.
But then, we also have Red Hood and the Outlaws, which is starting to receive praise, but I still can't forgive for what it did to Starfire.
Alyx L.
I expected Birds of Prey to be the ones I started with but the lineup was changed completely… not that I don't like it. In fact, Starling is actually my new favorite BOP girl.
Robbie P.
We'll get back to Red Hood in a minute, since I'm curious as to what appeals to you about it.
What comics are you all still following now?
Kee
I am really enjoying Batwoman, as well as Frankenstein Agent of S.H.A.D.E, I haven't been picking up many because I want to get more into the world of Marvel
Kenneth G.
Swamp Thing, Animal Man, Justice League International, Batman & Robin, Demon Knights, Batman, The Shade, Aquaman, Teen Titans. Justice League Dark, Green Lantern, and Green Lantern: New Guardians I will only be following in collections.
Alyx L.
Action Comics, Animal Man, Aquaman, Batgirl, Batman, Batman: The Dark Knight, Batwoman, Birds of Prey, Catwoman, DCU Presents, Deathstroke, Detective Comics, Frankenstein, Green Lantern, Green Lantern: New Guardians, Justice League, Justice League Dark, Justice League International, Nightwing, Red Hood and the Outlaws, Suicide Squad, Superboy, Supergirl, Teen Titans, The Flash, Voodoo and Wonder Woman I have been reading since issue 1
Kenneth G.
Dayum!
Robbie P.
Justice League International, Swamp Thing, Resurrection Man, and Aquaman I've been following, and Blue Beetle I'm sticking with in hopes of it leaving its "darker and edgier" phase. I'm sticking with Static Shock since it's about to end, while I just dropped Justice League and Justice League Dark. I read the Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman Green Lantern, and team comics at bookstores when I can.
Looks like we've got quite a lot of comics we can talk about. So, let's go around for the next topic: advantages and disadvantages of the reboot. Kee, why don't you start?
Kee
Wellllllllll
I think a HUGE advantage to the reboot like I said, was that it will bring in a whole new generation of comic book readers, I think that would be the main advantage of it. and also more characters get introduced into the universe like Alyx said about Starling in the Birds of Prey.
And then I guess a sort of disadvantage that I found was that it sort of shadowed some of the other characters that were is those comics before hand like the Batgirls cassandra and stephanie.
Kenneth G.
I have a feeling we will be coming back to the Batgirl issue a lot in this roundtable.
Robbie P.
Oh yes. Alyx, your thoughts on advantages/disadvantages?
Alyx L.
Well as far as advantages, to repeat myself it does help someone like me who has been into comics but didn't start from the beginning get to know the characters in the universe. It also has been really nice seeing everyones writing styles and artistic styles to help further identify them in the future. And because I feel like throwing it in there… you can't miss all the cosplay opportunities!
Kenneth G.
Good luck with Red Robin's new wings though...
Alyx L.
And for disadvantages, if you've been into the universe for a long time and want to dip a toe into the reboot there is too much change going on for anyone who isn't new to the universe to enjoy fully. Also, a disadvantage is although they are reaching out to the newer generation they aren't providing enough of a span to incorporate anyone under the age of 12 who might like comics. Yes they have things like Tiny Titans for kids..but there was this article I read about this girl who really loved Kory and was REALLY disappointed with Red Hood and the Outlaws because of how she was portrayed sexually (http://io9.com/5844355/a-7+year+old-girl-responds-to-dc-comics-sexed+up-reboot-of-starfire). Granted, not all the story lines are for kids… but you can't STOP kids from wanting to pick up comics if they wanted.
If that made sense.
Kenneth G.
It does
Robbie P.
I'd say so. Kenneth, your thoughts?
Kenneth G.
Well, one advantage that we have discussed is that it does provide a jumping on point for new readers who would be scared off by years of continuity. It also allows for a clean slate for some characters whose continuity is more difficult than Chinese Arithmetic.
Having said that though, there are some disadvantages, specifically to this reboot.
1. Yeah, the reboot does provide a jumping on point...at least for a good degree of books. Several of the books, in particular Batman and from what I've heard, Green Lantern, still require you to have a degree of knowledge.
While Batman is very mainstream, if you want to get into Green Lantern, you've got to go nearly to the beginning with "Green Lantern: Secret Origin". Going from that all the way to "War of the Lanterns" is time consuming.
If they were going to do a reboot, they should have gone all the way, instead of us playing a guessing game with the continuity.
Secondly, this reboot has made the DC universe a bit more darker and edgier. I'll get more into this when we talk about the worst books of the relaunch, but there are not a whole lot of optimistic books out there. I think it is because DC, like so many other people, has this notion that "Darker and Edgier" are better because they are more "realistic".
1. We threw realism out when Superman was juggling planets.
2. You know that a realistic setting would balance the light and the dark. Good and Bad.
Not to mention, if you make books that combine light themes and dark themes, you can make books that can be accessible to all ages. It truly is sad when "My Little Pony" seems more realistic than a comic.
Robbie P.
You guys have covered most of what I'd like to say. I also like how the reboot lets some canceled titles get a second shot, and some old characters a new life. We've got the JLI back, a new run on Swamp Thing, Blue Beetle's second chance, and even Resurrection Man has a run of his own.
On the other hand, there's still no clear indication as to what previous events are canon anymore. Blackest Night must have happened, given the events in Green Lantern, but how much of it did? I'm sure the Superman and Green Arrow stuff in BN was retconned, and who has even died and come back before nowadays?
That's not even getting started on the various Crises. So many things left unanswered, and I hope we get some answers at WonderCon and Comic Con this year.
Kenneth G.
Well, we know Cry For Justice is gone.
Robbie P.
One of the good things to come from this reboot
Kenneth G.
Yeah, but they also missed the point of retconning that schlock out
Robbie P.
Yep. I'm not even sure how Green and Red Arrow are connected any more, given Oliver's de-aging.
Let's move on to the next topic. In your opinions, what are the best stories so far? Alyx?
Alyx L.
Oh man… alright, let's see...
Aquaman (as we discussed in our previous round table), Batgirl, Batman and Robin (which I am reading and forgot to mention above), Birds of Prey, Catwoman, Deadman is surprisingly good... Frankenstein, Justice League International, Red Hood and the Outlaws, and The Flash
Robbie P.
I'd have to agree with Aquaman, and I'm just going to beat Kenneth to the punch by saying Swamp Thing; beautiful art, good story, and a unique type of comic book character. I've also been enjoying Justice League International, although I wouldn't say it's among the best, and Geoff Johns is doing a great job on Green Lantern, as usual.
Kenneth G.
A lot of people have been giving Batman and Robin a lot of flack.
Alyx L.
I am a Damian fan. I love his PERSONAL storyline in Batman and Robin.
Kenneth G.
They think its too slow. Those people don't understand the B&R book. It's not about the action. It's about the building relationship of a father and son.
Alyx L.
Exactly! And its been a GREAT story so far.
Robbie P.
Oh yes, Damian has had some great development in Batman and Robin, both with Grayson and Bruce.
Kenneth G.
And I think the arc is ending soon, since Issue #9 ties in with the Court of Owls.
Robbie P.
I was worried that he wouldn't work as well with Bruce as he did with Dick, but they've got their own dynamic that helps develop him just as much, albeit in different ways.
Kee, your favorites?
Kee
Batwoman, Frankenstein, Batgirl, Justice League, and Aquaman for me~ I haven't picked up batman and Robin yet but I really want to, and also I only have a couple issues of Huntress and I'm enjoying it so far, but I'm in love with the artwork of Batwoman, I wish they didn't switch artists in the 6th one.
Kenneth G.
Indeed. J.H. Williams III is an extremely talented artist.
Alyx L
Speaking of art, I said it before and I will say it again: Batman #5 was impressive.
Kenneth G.
Well I do enjoy the scenery and such with Batman, I have one problem with the art. Greg Capullo seems to have one style for male faces. I don't know, it's very jarring for me.
Alyx L.
Haha all the background males are Bruce...
Robbie P.
The man's got a lot of secret identities, I guess
Kenneth G.
I'm Batman... and I can disguise myself as a half-caucasian, half-arabic ten year old.
Robbie P.
Who's gonna tell him otherwise?
Kenneth G.
Okay, Robbie beat me to the punch, but....
OH MY GOD, SWAMP THING IS ONE-HUNDRED PERCENT PURE AMAZINGNESS!
Scott Snyder (who in my opinion is the best writer of the relaunch andnoimnotsayingthisbecausewebothliveonlongislandandhecanhavemekilled) has crafted a wonderful tale of a hero at first refusing the call to adventure, but then accepting his destiny when his loved ones are put in danger. He's aided by the STUNNING artwork of Yanick Paquette. Seriously, the detail the man puts in his work is a once in a life time sight.
There were some comics that surprised me. Like Demon Knights, which is kind of like "Justice League Medieval." A lot better than I thought it would be.
And of course, Batman. I have to say, I am more intrigued by Snyder's Court of Owls than Morrison's Leviathan. Which, has anyone else read "Leviathan Strikes!" in January?
Robbie P.
I wasn't able to, no
Alyx L.
The Court of Owls is great...and i haven't read that, no.
Kee
No, I haven't.
Kenneth G.
Oh, well do you mind a spoiler?
Alyx L.
Nope.
Robbie P.
Go ahead
Kenneth G.
The leader of Leviathan is Talia Al Ghul.
In my opinion, this kind of left me underwhelmed. Because, I have never seen Talia as anything more than a VINDICTIVE, INDECISIVE BITCH WHO CAN'T MAKE UP HER FUCKING MIND ON WHETHER OR NOT SHE'S ON BRUCE'S SIDE OR HER FATHER'S! MORRISON'S BATMAN HAS MORE OR LESS GONE DOWN TO A GLOBAL SPANNING CUSTODY CASE!
Anyways, I'm done.
Robbie P.
I think we can be sure you're not keeping anything to yourself.
Kenneth G.
Oh, just you wait...
Robbie P.
Now then, there were a few comics that came up a couple times that we should discuss before moving on.
We talked about Batgirl for a bit earlier, and I think we're all in agreement that taking her out of the chair was a bad move.
Kenneth G.
Eyup. It wasn't so much that as it was taking her out of the Oracle chair.
Robbie P.
I'm curious, what would you guys have preferred for a Batgirl comic?
Alyx L.
Honestly, I am not sure. Just c'os I know i knew her as Oracle… so I just expected there to be someone else.
Robbie P.
Well, we basically have three options for a Batgirl comic: Barbara, Cassandra, or Stephanie, unless they introduce a new one.
Cass is working as Black Bat, but Stephanie didn't need to lose her role.
Kenneth G.
I would have loved to have seen a kind of group book, focusing on all three of the Batgirls, despite Stephanie is now Spoiler again and I'm assuming Cassandra is Black Bat. Maybe called "Gotham Girls" or something.
Kee
Honestly, I would have loved if maybe they rebooted with stephanie cause she sort of disappeared, it would've been cool to see her return.
Robbie P.
If they really wanted to use Barbara, I'd have preferred we see her flashing back as Oracle to her times as Batgirl; that would also help us see what has changed in the DCu's past
Kenneth G.
The fact that Steph and Cass are kind of Schrodinger's Characters right now doesn't help.
This does bring up something I've noticed about DC over the last couple of years: the resurrection of many of the Silver Age legacy characters. Barry Allen, Hal Jordan, Barbara as Batgirl again.
DC keeps saying that these are the "most iconic" characters under the legacy. The first Flash I knew of was Wally West and the first GL I knew of was Kyle Rayner.
Robbie P.
I suppose to them, and the older fans, they are the most iconic, but that's a matter of perspective.
Kenneth G.
It could also be that Dan DiDio and Geoff Johns are self-admitted Silver Age fans.
Just sayin'...
Robbie P.
That too.
Kee
I honestly don't know why they did it.
I think it may have been for the older fans and such, and them thinking oh we can bring these beloved characters back with a BANG.
Robbie P.
Not to mention how little truly changes for good in comics. Nobody stays dead, after all.
Kenneth G.
Except Lian Harper.
Robbie P.
Which reminds me: Red Hood and the Outlaws.
Kenneth G.
Why the hell isn't Jason Todd back in his casket yet?
Robbie P.
I've raged about what they did to Kory, but Alyx, you've mentioned enjoying it. Tell us about what makes it enjoyable
Alyx L.
I don't appreciate what they did to Kory, no way. I hate that she's this drone with 'no attachment problems because her people don't fall in love' or whatever that crap was they made her say...
BUT
i have been a fan of Jason Todd since I saw Under the Red Hood, so I was stoked to see he was a part of the team. And I am a Roy Harper fangirl. So I blame my attraction to fictional characters.
But the interaction that Jason and Roy have together is just great. The art is alright; I am not wowed by it... but I have been enjoying the arc with the exception of Kory.
Roy in the comics is way better than what you see in Young Justice (for those who watch it).
Kenneth G.
Okay, valid points.
Robbie P.
Yep, fair enough. I do hope they correct everything they've done to Starfire, though.
Kenneth G.
I think I wasn't as enraged as many because, apart from 52, I don't really know a lot about Starfire in the comics. Like I said, I came aboard when the third generation was making names for themselves.
It was offensive, but not to the level that I got militant about it.
Kee
Yeah, I haven't read the Red Hood and the Outlaws series, but after reading the article about the little girl saying how different Starfire was in the comics, I'm a bit bothered.
Alyx Laufeyson 8:28 PM
Animal Man is funky...but a good kind of funky
Kenneth G.
Damn skippy it is.
Robbie P.
I was turned off from Animal Man because of what it did to the happy family he had.
Dogs are dead, family's falling apart, all that nasty stuff.
Kenneth G.
Trust me, Robbie, you should've kept with it. The family dynamic is still intact
Robbie P.
I have heard that it's very good, though, so I'll check out the trade when it comes out.
Alyx L.
It is.
Kenneth G.
Plus its crossing over with Swamp Thing.
Robbie P.
That too
Kenneth G.
Speaking of, I guess I'll let you guys know, I'll be buying all the tie ins to "Night of the Owls" come May and giving opinions. My wallet is gonna hurt come May
Robbie P.
Worth it.
Kenneth G.
Oh, we gonna talk about the "Second Wave?"
Robbie P.
That was actually the next topic. So yes, let's.
Kenneth G.
Okay, for those who don't know. Come May, DC is dropping six monthlies and adding six
"Men of War," "Mister Terrific," "O.M.A.C.," "Hawk and Dove," "Blackhawks" and "Static Shock" are gone come May
Let's start there. What's your opinion? What could have saved these books? Who wants to start?
Alyx L.
Didn't read any of those past issue 1 so I can't say. All I know is I despised Hawk and Dove
Kenneth G.
Was it because of the comic punch line, Rob Liefeld?
Kee
I haven't read any of those titles, so I don't have any say, really.
Alyx L.
it just rubbed me the wrong way... I couldn't take it seriously.
Kenneth G.
I called "Men of War" the second it was announced.
Robbie P.
I've been following Static Shock, but it's been lacking cohesion. I'm not surprised it's ending. I thought it was off to a good start, but it went downhill quickly.
Apparently there was a lot of creative differences between author and artist that caused no small amount of strife, so of course, the comic suffered.
It's a shame; I really liked the cartoon, so I was hoping the comic could meet its level of quality. Sadly, it did not.
Kenneth G.
"Mister Terrific". I don't know. I mean, I liked the guy. But you had to be a pretty hardcore fan of JSA to know who he was. Maybe if it was a mini-series, it would have worked.
Robbie P.
Yeah, Mr. Terrific is fine in the JSA, but on his own, he lacks a certain "umph" to make it last.
Kenneth G.
So I guess we'll go through each of the new in the Second Wave and voice opinion?
Alyx L.
If I have anything to say, I will say.
Kenneth G.
Okay
Number One:
BATMAN INCORPORATED – Writer: Grant Morrison. Artist: Chris Burnham. The acclaimed ongoing writer of ACTION COMICS, Grant Morrison, presents a fresh take on BATMAN INCORPORATED, in which the Batman brand is franchised globally in preparation for a major international threat.
Think I've made my opinion on this one quite clear.
Robbie P.
Another Bat-title... I would hope that would replace "Batman: The Dark Knight," but I like the idea of Batman Incorporated nonetheless. Not enough to buy it quite yet, though.
Kenneth G.
I think I'll just wait for trade. Again, the idea intrigues me.
Alyx L.
I have a "What's Next" issue of Incorporated... I liked that one, but another Batman title seems to be too much.
Kenneth G.
They should at least do away with Batman: TDK
Kee
I enjoyed the Batman Incorporated series , but like Alyx said, I think they already have too many batman titles, and they aren't even getting rid of one, so why add one, ya know?
Kenneth G.
Okay, lets go on to Number Two:
EARTH 2 – Writer: James Robinson. Artist: Nicola Scott. The greatest heroes on a parallel Earth, the Justice Society combats threats that will set them on a collision course with other worlds.
James Robinson working on Justice Society characters? God is in his kingdom, and all is right with the world. If it is as good as The Shade is right now, damn straight I'm picking it up.
Robbie P.
It's good to see the Justice Society again, even if they've been booted to Earth-2. I'm going to buy the first issue, then decide from there if I want to keep going or not.
Kee
Don't know what it's about until I pick it up.
Kenneth G.
Okay
Number 3:
WORLDS’ FINEST – Writer: Paul Levitz. Artists: George Perez and Kevin Maguire. Stranded on our world from a parallel reality, Huntress and Power Girl struggle to find their way back to Earth 2. Perez and Maguire will be the artists on alternating story arcs.
Alyx L.
Sounds like a good read. I miss Huntress in my life, and I am assuming this is Power Girl sans boob window.
Kenneth G.
Yep.
Robbie P.
Ah, now this one I'm interested in. Power Girl and Huntress are usually an interesting team, and it's connecting both the Earth 1 and Earth 2 books together.
Kenneth G.
I felt a great disturbance in The Force, as if millions of horny adolescent males cried out in terror... and were suddenly silenced.
Robbie P.
The costume changes I'm a little unsure of, but if Power Girl has found a reason to replace her "boob window" and get a crest of her own, then I can't complain. It's about her character, not the fanservice.
Kenneth G.
Yeah. But seriously, this book seems very intriguing. I do look forward to it.
Kee
I'm excited for the third one~ I love both Power Girl and Huntress, and I think they will make a great duo~
I know a lot of people were against the costume change, I like her with the boob window moreso than without, but I'll still give it a go no matter, I don't think a costume change will effect the storyline at all.
Kenneth G.
So we're all agreed, "Do this stuff more?"
Robbie P.
Sounds that way.
Kenneth G.
Okay
Number Four:
DIAL H – Writer: China Miéville. Artist: Mateus Santoluoco. The first ongoing series from acclaimed novelist China Miéville, this is a bold new take on a cult classic concept about the psychological effects on an everyman who accidentally gains powers to become a hero.
Robbie P.
It sounds interesting, although not as "new" as they claim. Doctor Manhattan, anyone?
Alyx Laufeyson 8:54 PM
probably passing
Kenneth G.
Well, I have mixed feelings here. I was intrigued, until I read an article where it described China Mieville as a "novelist and political activist". Sorry, that makes me slam on the brakes hard.
Kee
That sounds very interesting, I may pick up the first issue and decide from there.
Kenneth G.
The art looks interesting, so I'll probably get the first issue.
Number Five:
G.I. COMBAT – Writer: J.T. Krul. Artist: Ariel Olivetti. Featuring the return of a classic DC Comics series, THE WAR THAT TIME FORGOT, along with rotating back-up stories and creative teams – including THE UNKNOWN SOLDIER, with writers Justin Gray and Jimmy Palmiotti and artist Dan Panosian; and THE HAUNTED TANK, with writer John Arcudi and artist Scott Kolins.
Okay, this is confusing. They're canceling their only two military-based books and adding one in?
I would have loved to be in the meeting where that was discussed.
Alyx L.
Passing
Robbie P.
I see no point in this one, and have no intention to read it. It just doesn't appeal to me, and I doubt I'm the only one to feel that way.
Kee
NAH.
Kenneth G,
Kind of sucks because its got some good writers, but as the last six months have proved, there isn't a strong market for war books.
Number Six:
THE RAVAGERS – Writer: Howard Mackie. Artist: Ian Churchill. Spinning off from TEEN TITANS and SUPERBOY, this series finds four superpowered teens on the run and fighting against the organization that wants to turn them into supervillains.
Oh dear God.
I don't know if you two say the art for this book.
Robbie P.
This is what they've done with Beast Boy. And they made him red.
Kenneth G.
This book is straight out of the nineties.
Alyx L.
I'll check it out
Kenneth G.
And they're using it to introduced Caitlain Fairchild, a character from Wildstorm.
Kee
This seems interesting, I'll check it out when it hits shelves.
Kenneth G.
I did a review for Teen Titans #1 where she showed up, and i got flock for not knowing her name. Let me say this to anyone who reads this: I DO NOT, NOR WILL I EVER, CARE ABOUT WILDSTORM! THE ONLY REASON THEY'RE IN THE RELAUNCH IS BECAUSE JIM LEE HAS MAJOR CLOUT AS CO-EDITOR!
Robbie P.
I'm not familiar with the Wildstorm titles, but I'm willing to see how they get integrated with the DCu. I'm skeptical about this one, but I'll check it out if just to see how it ties in with Teen Titans.
Kenneth G.
I think this may be a read in store for me.
Again, I am reading Titans, but I doubt I'll stick with it.
Okay, so that's Second Wave
Robbie P.
That leaves us with any bad books; what are we hoping gets cancelled next?
Kenneth G.
You want to start us off Robbie?
Robbie P.
Honestly, I don't have any comics I hope get cancelled at the moment; I haven't been reading the ones I don't like, so I can't really judge them. But I really hope Red Hood and the Outlaws fixes the damage they did to Starfire, then it might be worth reading. As she is, it's not.
Alyx L.
In short, all the ones I don't read. Not that they get cancelled, just as far as what I don't like.
Kee
I haven't had any complaints with the ones I've read, and I can't really say anything about the others in the new 52.
Kenneth G.
I don't necessarily think this one should be canceled.
But man-oh-man, have they fucked this one up in six issues. And it's a shame because It has a good writer and artist. But I blame the whole darkening of the DC verse for this comic going down the fucking drain for me.
Say it with me, Robbie.
Blue
Robbie P.
Beetle
Kenneth G.
Again, Robbie introduced Jaime Reyes' original series to me, and I love it. It was light hearted, but knew when to take itself seriously, and had a great supporting cast. A LAYERED supporting cast.
This fucking Blue Beetle comic... they're turned it into a generic teen angst book... AND a Spider-Man rip off, complete with its own Venom!
Issue six, which I have right next to me, really cemented it for me.
Because Jaime, knowingly and willingly, slapped his friend Brenda, a victim of parental abuse, in the face.
And people tell me, "He had no choice. It was the lesser of two evils." To which I say, BULL FUCKING SHIT!
And you want to know the worst thing, there will be some douchebag online that says, "Well Jaime had to keep his pimp hand strong!" I swear, if I ever hear someone say that, I WILL FUCKING KILL THEM!
And judging by the press release for Issue 7, not to mention the darker nature of the relaunch, I severely doubt it will get better.
Robbie P.
Alright, I'll offer my two cents about Blue Beetle.
Now, I've also been enjoying his previous run, which I just finished, and the dark turn this new series has taken has not been a pleasant one.
I agree with your criticisms, but I'm really hoping it lightens up sooner or later. It's okay if he has to struggle to get control of the scarab at first, in spite of how really, really bad things have been going for him, but I want things to get better for Jaime.
Kenneth G.
I do too, man.
Robbie P.
His previous run ended too soon, and his team-ups didn't last long enough, so I want to support this. I just hope they learn to make it better for him. Just being a teen hero is tough enough without having to hurt his best friend.
Kenneth G.
But lets look at the mentality DC has with this relaunch. That's why I don't think this is Tony Bedard. I really think this is, at least partially, editorial driven.
Robbie P.
Then let's wrap this up with our final, big question: Was this reboot necessary?
Alyx L.
The reboot is only necessary for those who have no idea what to do with the Universe. n00bs like myself.
Kee
Ummm yes and no. I felt it was necessary in the sense that some of the new titles got the spotlight they deserved, and also it redeemed some of the characters that sucked. And also they were just kind of getting out of hand what with how many issues of comics were being sold. So I felt it was a good invigorating restart, and that way we can all be on the same page.I think it was unnecessary to sort drop one story line and start another like with birds of prey, and batgirl and such.
Kenneth G.
In the long run, it's not necessary, since the continuity is inevitably going to get convoluted again. As I said in the beginning, just focus on telling good stories, and the people will come. You don't have to darken your whole universe or copy Marvel. Just focus on good stories, and let the writers dictate how a story goes, not the editors.
Robbie P.
I think that using Flashpoint as a trigger to integrate the other continuities is fine, but they went too far with the reboot.
Changing too many parts of the past and causing continuity snarls with uncertain retcons is begging for trouble, and it has yet to gain cohesion. They've integrated outside comics before without rebooting everything.
Still, it brought back some old comics and introduced some new ones, so it has done plenty of good.
I suppose we'll just see if it works out for the best.
Kenneth G.
Indeed.
Robbie P.
So, any final thoughts before we sign off?
Kenneth G.
Go read Jaime's first series.
Alyx L.
Thanks for having mem guys!
Kee
Thanks for having me as well~
Robbie P.
Alright then, thank you all for joining me. Until next time, this has been whatever we read.
Kenneth G.
And the Disgruntled Scholar, and we will be back in April for another roundtable, this time heading over to the Marvel camp with "Avengers vs. X-Men."
